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Interviews with Midwest artists.
  Complete interviews in a WORD document
Interviews with James Calvin Johnson, Ida Rosenbaum, Jay Epstein,
Al Mevisson and a second one with Lordan.

Bill Lordan, posted 12/2/00

Midwest Music Readers,

The following interview was done via e-mail during
October and November of 2000. There is so much
written about Bill that is available on the internet,
but little about his years with Gypsy. I have included
a few web addresses throughout this interview to point
you to more information. I tried to focus on three areas:
How Bill became the drummer that we most associate
with the Gypsy sound, the Gypsy years including personal
observations about the members and finishing with information
about his current projects. Bill has an amazing memory - very visual
and detailed. I know you will enjoy his story.

I would be remiss if I didn’t thank Kate, Bill’s soul mate and best friend,
for being our transcriber during these interview sessions. I was amazed
at how quickly the answers to questions were returned. Without her help,
Bill and I may never have been able to accomplish this in such a short time span.

As with all the other interviews I have done for the Gypsy Tribute Page,
I have had the wonderful experience of building new friendships with
individuals who have touched my life through their music. Unlike the
stories we so often hear about musicians, these people are dedicated
to their craft. They continue to grow and evolve and pour passion into
their work. I feel privileged to be so warmly accepted and trusted with their memories.

Diane (Editor in Chief, Midwest Music)

Diane: What inspired you to become a drummer?
Bill Lordan: The person who inspired me to play drums was Sister Thomas Martin,
my Sixth Grade Teacher at St. Stephen Catholic School in Minneapolis in 1959.
One day at the end of the school day, Sister Thomas Martin made an announcement
to the class asking the class who would like to play drums after school. First two kids
raised their hands, and then I raised my hand, not knowing why I was raising
my hand, because I did not have any particular interest in playing the drums.
After I raised my hand, she said that she would only take three students
for lessons. We started lessons after school and we practiced on little
practice pads, not on drums. The practice pads were just rubber on
wood pads. Sister Thomas Martin showed us the basics of just holding
the sticks and doing the rudiments. It is where I learned the phrase,
"Momma-Daddy, Momma-Daddy", which was her way of using alliteration
for the two-stroke/double stroke roll. It is one of the basic rudiments
which I show on my drum video, THE DRUM BEAT VIDEO
(ED: You can order this on Bill’s website: Bill Lordan's website.

Di: So you were 12 when you started playing. Tell me about your first kit.
BL: It was a Gretch white pearl 4-piece kit, that my mother helped me to
buy in 1961. The drum kit was two toms( floor tom and rack tom), a
bass drum and snare....simple. There’s a picture of that kit in my high
school yearbook, the Hesperian-1963, which is out on loan now. I'm
behind the kit and wearing a suit and tie. I got my first kit at Chester
E. Groth Music, on 9th and Marquette in downtown Minneapolis.
I remember that Chester E. Groth had the coolest window displays
of drums and instruments, including band instruments. I would
take the bus downtown from 2650 Grand Avenue South to 10th
and Hennipen and walk over to Marquette. I often went downtown,
since it was a period of time before malls. We would go downtown
to go to the movies and look at the displays in the windows.

Di: What lessons did you take and what were the benefits of those lessons?
BL: I had one drum teacher, Bob Pope, at Groth Music. The benefit of those
lessons was that Bob Pope exposed me to some of the jazz greats in
drumming like Art Blakey, Evlin Jones, Max Roach, Chico Hamilton
and others. It was an inspiring time for me at an early age. Those
drummers were technically proficient and I learned Latin beats
at an early age.

Di: Any other early influences? How did they affect your style?
BL: Jabo Startks (James Brown"s drummer) and Al Jackson
(Booker T. and the MGs). They gave me a solid foundation of
R&B Roots with a real feel for the music. I built my style from
there with other techniques.

Di: Tell me about your first band experience.
BL: My first band experience was with Willie Murphy, a famous
Minneapolis musician. He is a Minneapolis legend who stayed
local and played locally all of his life and is most remembered
for WILLIE AND THE BEES. We were a two-piece band. Willy
played piano and sang and I played the drums. We played for
local things like the Boys' Club and at parks where there was a
neighborhood house with a recreation room - a "hang" for
neighborhood kids. Willie and I later joined our first soul-band
together, called the ValDon's. We played at Mattie's BarBQue,
a Black-owned club on 29th and Nicollet. I was under-aged at
the time and during the band breaks, I would have to sit on the
restaurant side of the club. Matties' became a regular gig for us
for awhile. The club also hired out of town bands - mostly jazz
trios. At least that is what I saw.

Di: You had quite a career going at a very early age. Tell me about
some of your other projects back then.
BL: THE BLUE NOTES were a soul and blues band from St. Paul, MN.
We played soul clubs in St. Paul and local VFW Halls, opening for
national act soul acts who toured in the area. I played with the
AMAZER'S from 1964 to 1968. They were originally a gospel group
from Dallas, Texas, called "THE MIGHTY GOLDEN VOICES." We
played at the Ebony Lounge in St. Paul and Bill Heinie's Whitehouse
on University Ave in St. Paul, MN. We traveled to Des Moines, Iowa
to play at the Drake Relays at the college and at a soul club called
the 790 Club. We also played in Milwaukee at the Surf-Side-16 Club
on 16th and North Avenue. We were like the house band at Sur-Side-16
for about a year, where we did shows with Harvey Scales and the Seven
Sounds. Harvey Scales, the vocalist, co-wrote the soul hit:" Disco Lady"
for Johnny Taylor. I believe that the building is still standing. We also
played the Minneapolis Auditorium where we did a benefit show with
Della Reese, Jerry Vale and George Carlin. With the AMAZER'S we had
a number one record in 1968 on the SUPER SOUL TOP FIFTY charts,
called: "It's You for Me." Also in May of 1968, there was an article in JET MAGAZINE,
mentioning that the Amazers were managed and recorded by Curtis Mayfield and
the Impressions. In essence, we were under the wing of producer, Curtis Mayfield,
arranger Johnny Pate (horns and music) at Universal Studios on the corner of Walden
and Rush Streets in Chicago, Illinois. This is where the Impressions did their recording.

Di: You picked up one of your first nickname’s back then. Tell me about it.
BL: The nickname Grey Ghost came from the Amazers. I was the only white guy in the
band and the guitar player, Macrae Blackshire, used to call me that as I was the most
pale one in the bunch or the grey`st looking one at least to him anyway.

Di: Who were you playing with after you left the Amazers?
BL: In 1968, I joined the ESQUIRES, from Milwaukee. The ESQUIRES had a #1-nation-wide
hit single called "Get On Up", they received a gold record award for the single at the Apollo
Theater in Harlem, New York March 6, 1968. The single is still played today on a regular
rotation on almost all oldies radio stations across the U.S. We toured and headlined
colleges, Black Theaters and clubs all over the U.S. An interesting story of my time on
tour with the ESQUIRE'S was when we were in Washington D. C. at the time of
Martin Luther King's assassination. There was widespread rioting and looting
in the streets. I had to hide myself in the back of the band van to avoid being
seen as I was White and at the time any White person was a target by the
angry Black mob. We were lucky to get out of Washington D.C. without any
incident and get to our next concert date.

Di: I remember you playing with the Mystics when I was a senior in high school.
BL: I joined the MYSTIC'S, in 1969. I always called them: "MICHAEL'S MYSTICS"
because the leader and founder of the band was Michael Stokes and his brother Butch.
When I first heard of them, people would refer to them that way. The MYSTIC'S had
a local number one single called "Pain" which was distributed nationally through
Metromedia of New York, and produced by Ira Heilicher of the Minneapolis
Diversified Music Firm of Heilecher Brothers, Inc. The number one song,
"Pain" was played on KDWB in Minneapolis/St. Paul and made it to the
BILLBOARD CHARTS HOT 100, for the week ending August 23rd, 1969.
We played at Bel Rae Ballroom, in one of the suburbs of Minneapolis
and in Chicago at the Check-Mate Club. We also went to Miami, Florida
to play for a national college conference on October 1st, 1969 at the
Americana Hotel. We were the featured band at the convention.

Di: Something else happened in 1969 that our reader’s might be interested in.
BL: In July of 1969, Willie Weeks and I went to New York City to jam with Jimi Hendrix.
Willie Weeks and I had been together since the AMAZER'S.
(ED: A full account of Bill and Willie’s sessions with Jimi Hendrix can be found at
Lordan's other interview

Di: During the Hendrix audition sessions, you and Willie Weeks said you were
a package deal. What do you think was unique about your styles that made you
fit together so well?
BL: Willie Weeks played bass and followed my bass drum pattern closely. We got
tight from that formula and we both played in soul bands together doing the roots
of gospel and R&B. We had a good background we could draw from of the grooves
we played that created the feel (emphasizing "feel") we played together. Plus,
Willie had a natural soulful gift and was able to add that spark - the fire up-under
the music.

Di: Prior to you and Willie joining Gypsy, Jay Epstein and Doni Larson were their rhythm
section. Any thoughts on what sparked the personnel change?
BL: GYPSY was evolving musically and my style and Willie's were more in the direction
that the new material was headed.

Di: Tell me the story of how you became a member.
BL: I was in MPLS and I met a girl who knew about GYPSY and knew a guy named
Joel who had a big house by Lake of the Isles and a grand piano. Owl, who was a
friend of Joel's, would go with Enrico and Jim to work on song ideas with the grand piano.
They did some rehearsing there at Joel's, so that is how I heard about them. But it was
not until I made a move to LA. and stayed with Rico for a short time that the band members
Rico, Jim and Owl came down to a club in Santa Monica to hear me play with a blues/funk band
called BLUE ROSE. The guitar player was a friend of theirs, Terry Ferlong, who played with
the GrassRoots. It was at that time the connection was made and the idea was planted
to consider me for the drumming spot for GYPSY. When I returned to Minnesota, the
decision was made by the band to ask me to play drums. We went into serious
rehearsals for me to learn the old songs, the concert live set and to start working
on new material as well, before returning to Los Angeles to start recording. I moved
into a Laurel Canyon house on Horseshoe Canyon Road.

Di: I’ve heard the house in Laurel Canyon was where most of the band members lived and
it’s where you rehearsed. Tell me about the creative process when you were together.
BL: We would rehearse in the living room at least five out of seven days a week on new
songs that Rico, Owl and Jim had already developed on their own before presenting them
to the band. The rehearsals were in the afternoon, so as not to disturb our neighbor,
Mickey Dolenz of the Monkeys. He lived right above the Horseshoe Canyon House in
Laurel Canyon. We just kept working on our songs until we felt they were perfected.

Di: In the Garden expanded the depth of Gypsy's sound, adding the congas of Joe Lala
to the percussion section. Tell me about that recording session.
BL: IN THE GARDEN was done in a short time as we were well rehearsed. I remember
doing my drum solo a few times over to get it perfect. The press-roll at the opening of
the section had to be extended to make it work for the record. Joe LaLa did all his parts
well after we had done the basic tracks during overdub sessions. Joe was a friend of Rico's
and that's how we made the contact to get him to come and play on our album. Otherwise,
the sessions went very smoothly; no problems. The producer and engineer were well pleased
with our playing and studio savvy and we came in under budget as well. You know -
practice makes perfect, I guess.

Di: Gypsy went on tour after recording In the Garden. Who were the members at that
time and what venues did you play?
BL: It was the same personnel playing live as on the album. Willie Weeks was still on
bass. We did Guess Who dates. One was in Dallas, Texas and I have pictures of that
date I passed on to Scott Q . He also has itineraries of the cities we were in on that
tour with the Guess Who and hotel post cards of where we stayed. The venues were
colleges, auditoriums and theatres - mostly with the Guess Who. We did some regional
gigs like Armstrong High School and the St. Paul Winter Carnival, a Milwaukee club called
"Humpin' Hanna's" and, of course, The Home Bar on Lyndale and Franklin in South Minneapolis.
(ED: Thanks, Bill, for mentioning my favorite place to see Gypsy. The ‘60s crowd may
remember seeing the Underbeats there when it was called Gables. Locals now know
this location as Rudolph’s Barbecue - a waste of what had once been a fabulous venue
for live music. In Milwaukee Humpin' Hanna's building still exists as a venue called
Shank Hall on Farwell Avenue.)

Di: What were the circumstances that led up to Willie Weeks leaving Gypsy?
BL: Willie was a much-in-demand session player and was getting offers all the time
to do projects. He had an offer from ASK RUFUS, (CHAKA KAHN), to go to Chicago to
do an album and tour, so Willie made a decision to leave. That's when Randy Cates
came in the picture.

Di: Since you had been a package deal in the past, did you think about leaving Gypsy
with him?
BL: When Willie left, I had no plans to leave GYPSY as another album, tour and new
management was on board.

Di: Jim Johnson had renewed involvement in the creative process once the configuration
included you and Randy. Tell me about the times the three of you were working together.
What made this combination of players so unique?
BL: Randy was more available to rehearse and hang out to work on Jim's new ideas.
Randy's roots had blues and rock in them so we had common ground together. He had
a solid style and a nice feel, so the combination of the three of us easily locked in
together, thus making it unique. Randy was tight with me on the drums and I think
that my style from the origins of my early drumming with the African American marching
band - Ames Lodge - those types of cadences I had to play - developed into my unique
drum style. Jim had his own style that was unique unto itself. His roots in blues and rock
and his jazz/fusion additions made all of our combination of ingredients just work
together in what may have seemed as unique. Part of the unique sound came from
all of the rehearsing that we were doing. That made us tight on all of our parts.

Di: What do you think set Enrico Rosenbaum apart from other songwriters in the early '70's?
BL: Compared to other songwriters in the 70s, Enrico was more introspective and his
lyrics had deeper meaning that appealed to a more sophisticated rock audience.
Unlike other songwriters, he was in a working band situation so he was continuously
perfecting his craft, where other songwriters wrote when they were inspired or just
once in awhile and not with as much regularity as Enrico. He was also a lead-singer
and guitar-player, which set him apart from other songwriters.

Di: Your last Gypsy album, Unlock the Gates moved Gypsy further away from its roots.
The lyrics continued to be thought provoking, but it lacked the improvisational
instrumentals that fans craved. What was different in the production of that album?
BL: UNLOCK THE GATES was more of a commercial-formula type of production
with less improvised solos and more structured parts. Especially with the addition
of the Chicago Horn Section, which made the music tracks more regimented thus
less free-style and sticking to an arrangement. The producer, Jack Richardson, also
was crafting, molding and shaping the music to fit the radio format of the day to
please the corporate heads of RCA. When it was all done, they did not hear a hit,
that is when Enrico came up with Make Peace With Jesus, which resembled other
hits of the day such as My Sweet Lord by George Harrison.

Di: Of which Gypsy album and song are you most proud?
BL: The song I am most proud of is Money from the ANTITHESIS album, as I feel I played
my best signature drum style on it. The message of the song made a good point about
how money can be a mixed blessing and how the lack of it can hold you down from
being free from its bonds. It also became our strongest song in our live performances
so we used it for our last song of the set.......it was our big finishing song before our encore.

Di: What do you think Gypsy would sound like TODAY if Rico was here and you were
still on board?
BL: If Enrico was still here and I was still on board, we would most likely still have
a similar sound with the vocal harmonies, featured guitar solos and unusual and
interesting drum parts. But...the roots of R&B, Blues and Rock would still be dominant
with some strong ballads. I don't think much would have changed except that we would
all have evolved and matured and refined our entire spectrum. I think that Jim Johnson's
musical direction would have had a strong influence on the band songs, because he
was a dominant force.

Di: What did your years with Gypsy contribute to your musical growth?
BL: My years with Gypsy taught me to be a team player and the discipline of consistent
rehearsing, recording and playing live gave me a good foundation to go on and deal
with any type of project that came my way. We had this drill of rehearse, record,
play.... rehearse, record, play...(Bill moves his hands like a band conductor moving
his baton as he says, "Rehearse, record, play".) It was like Gypsy got me used to
the routine of the professional working musician’s lifestyle.

Editor's note: After leaving Gypsy in 1973, Lordan returned to Los Angeles and did
session work. In 1974 he joined Sly and the Family Stone, recording and touring for
nearly a year. He then began a long association with Robin Trower. In the eighties
he continued to perform and record with several musicians he had developed friendships
with throughout the years.
Visit Bill's timeline page at Lordan's Timeline to browse through his incredible career
(some of the photos are priceless!).

Di: Near the end of the 80’s you teamed with Gypsy’s Jim Johnson to form the
Calvin James Band. Who else was in the band? Describe the music.
BL: The music of Calvin James was all of Jim's creation with a blend of New Orleans
-style funk, blues and a bit of country thrown-in the entire fusion of
elements. I liked this music because I played all these varied styles
incorporated in the songs. The band played showcase venues around Los
Angeles like the Palomino Club and the Starwood. The members of the
Calvin James Band at that time were Mike Finnigan on keyboards,
(who played on Jimi Hendrix's Electric Ladyland) and Dave Rooney on bass.
There were other musicians that played with the Calvin James Band.
I can picture them in my mind, but I just can't seem to remember their names.

Di: I’ve heard songs recorded during that project. Tell me about the
sessions. How many tunes were recorded? Where were they recorded?
Were any released?
BL: The sessions for Calvin James were recorded at his in-house studio in
Encino, California. None of these recordings were ever released as far as I know.
The sessions were mostly Jim and I laying down the basic tracks during the day
and he would overdub the guitar, keyboards and percussion parts next. Then he
would do the final vocals and backgrounds usually in the evening when he was in
his best voice. My drum tracks were cut mainly during the day time as my energy is
higher to perform at that time of day. Overdubs and vocals were mostly cut during
the evening when Jim's throat was more opened-up and his mood was right for singing.
("The night time is the right time...." Bill sings the Ray Charles tune). I have a tape with
six or seven finished songs from those sessions, but we cut more than that. Those other
songs were rough and unfinished songs. Also, there were songs that we did live that
we did not record. This was a highly creative time for Jim Johnson and I enjoyed working
with him during this time because we clicked and complimented each other's style.

Di: You’ve worked in the music industry for nearly 40 years. What do you think is the
biggest change that affects you as a musician?
BL: The biggest change that has affected me as a musician in today's world of hip-hop
and rap has been finding good music to play and continue to maintain integrity to my
style of music without having to sell-out and become untrue to myself as a musician.
At the end of the day, I feel better about myself if I am doing my own music in my own way.

Di: Playing to old baby boomers, what is that like?
BL: Playing to the old baby boomers is great as they seem to appreciate the vintage of
where I am coming from and they are respectful of the band's musicianship. They are
enthusiastic and really get into it and always want an encore. It seems that they really
appreciate the "retro-flashback" style and absorb every minute of the music because
they don't get a chance to hear our style every day. We are the lost art form! Coming
to hear us is like finding "the real thing" (an old song of mine)...not a cheap imitation.
We have never stopped playing that era of music, but have been able to bring that
authentic sound into the new millenium.

Di: Tell me about your most recent project.
BL: My most recent project is The Bill Lordan Experiment (BLX) is a three-piece power
trio that is very Trower, Hendrix and Blues Rock rooted. The band members are,
Eric Turner on guitar and Mark Fry on bass. The songs in the project I have had for years
and have always felt that they were great tunes. The title track, Emotional Blackmail,
has been played on the Young and the Restless four times now. KLOS radio in
Los Angeles has featured both of my cds on their show. We are collaborating with
singer Davey Pattison (Robin Trower, Ronnie Montrose), on three cuts for my next CD.
Two songs are Robin Trower songs and are done by Davey as a tribute to James Dewar,
Robin Trower's original singer. They will be on the next BLX CD as bonus tracks. I have
a video coming our from a show we did last summer, at the Coach House in California,
where we opened for Robin Trower. This will be for sale on my website along with my
CDs at Lordan's Website.

I also have a project with Charlie Souza (www.CharlieSouza.com), which is more pop
oriented. Charlie Souza is on bass and vocals with Eric Turner on guitar. The CD we
recorded is called LIVE YOUR DREAM, which is a mix of original Souza songs, that
have a variety of musical styles. There are songs which use gospel background vocals,
Latin percussion, pop, rock and soul styles. I worked with Charlie in the 80s on various
projects and this project was a great opportunity to work with him again.

Di: What is your personal message to the fans of Gypsy and your continuing work?
BL: Thanks for supporting our music throughout the years and for keeping it alive by
your continued interest. I especially want to thank Scott Quittem, Diane Ingram,
Dave Mueller and Ida Rosenbaum for their updated news and stories, website and
promotion, and for generating an interest in the music. I encourage Gypsy fans to
support the Calvin James Band and to go out to their live shows when they are in
your area. Buy the shirts and CDs to show YOUR support for a sincere artist.

I appreciate all of the fans who continue to buy my CDs and visit my website. It has
been gratifying to see how many people have followed my career over the years.
I will continue to provide music and keep a personal relationship with those who
are interested in my music.

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